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2009 Tarot collectors Forum Collaborative Deck (or?)
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 Posted: Tue Mar 3rd, 2009 05:33 pm
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skad1
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gregory wrote: skad/world - did no-one notice blue bubble's post above ????? creator of the Hezicos tarot ?

And to whomever - grab a few minors while they're hot !

I am fine with digital and print it yourself (though I know OnePotato's work is truly wonderful, and would also happily chip in to pay him....) But I think quite a few here haven't the facility to print up a whole deck.....

All the info I know is here on this thread, I know nothing more.   When I started this thread, I did not believe everything would go this well.  That all the majors would be gone so soon, and the minors well on their way.

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 Posted: Tue Mar 3rd, 2009 06:55 pm
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skad1
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I have talked to one of the big box print shops about printing our deck on brochure grade stock.  Front is nice and shiny and back would be black matte.  The down side is that the paper is pretty thin, the color is wonderful, but the paper is way thin, very close to typing paper thin, just alittle stiffer.  A way around that is to laminate them once printed.  I can get the laminate pouches off Ebay at a reasonable price, and borrow my company’s laminator.  But the sheets would not be professionally cut because of registration problems.  So we would each get 8.5 x 11 inch sheets that we would have to cut ourselves.  If it sounds good to everyone, I would like to get a sample from the printer and run it thru the laminator, just to make sure it’ll work.  The lamination does increase the cost, but I really think it would be worth it in the long run. 

I personally line option 6 best.  The per deck costs are pretty good, the only problem is the upfront money.

------------------------

2.5 x 3.75 final card size

Option 1:  Printed and cut, 6.53 per deck, 143.76 upfront

Option 2:  Printed and uncut, 5.90 per deck, 129.90 upfront

Option 3:  Printed, uncut, and laminated, 7.72 per deck, 169.90 upfront

------------------------

3 x 4.5 final card size (2008 deck size)

Option 4:  Printed and cut, 10.39 per deck, 228.62 upfront

Option 5:  Printed and uncut, 9.84 per deck, 216.50 upfront

Option 6:  Printed, uncut, and laminated, 11.66 per deck, 256.50 upfront

------------------------
Plus shipping.

Another consideration I would have is the upfront monies needed to print the deck.  I would not be able to put that all up myself and wait for payment.  
 
We would also need someone with layout experience who can do what OnePotato did as far the formatting and layout.  The printer would prefer .pdf format, but getting there is needed.

What does everyone think?  Should I put up another poll?  Any other ideas for printing?

Last edited on Tue Mar 3rd, 2009 08:21 pm by skad1

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 Posted: Tue Mar 3rd, 2009 08:14 pm
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Marcia959
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I like your option 6.  I'm willing to help with upfront costs also.

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 Posted: Wed Mar 4th, 2009 08:44 am
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goldenweb
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I've just remembered another way that I investigated when researching options for the Pen Tarot.

There are online printing companies to which one can register and upload images. One can then share the password for the gallery in question and so allow others to order postcard sized prints. I've ordered sets of proofs in the past - the card quality is good, and the cards are already cut and laminated when they arrive. They're a good size too, which is lovely for the artwork. The trouble for me was that I didn't want laminated cards and the cost of 100 sets was too high, but individually a set of 22 or 23 cards should be affordable. The other problem was that the cards are only printed on one side and they were unable to remove their company name from the back as everything is already set up. I did consider backing the cards myself, or  even printing on the reverse if I could obtain the cards with plain backs.

The UK company I tried was Photobox, but as most of you are in the US I guess there are similar companies over there. It might be worth a look - that way we could not only order our cards indivually, but personalise them with different backs. I suppose we'd all have to promise to print only one set though. And we'd need a proof or two to check quality as this can vary muchly.

Just an idea....:cool:

Pen, (wedded to the ellipsis)

Edited to add: http://www.photobox.co.uk/shop/cards-and-stationery/postcard

And it's not very clear, but the cards (even if different) become cheaper the more you order.

Another thought: It would also be possible to print two cards to a postcard and so halve the price.


 

Last edited on Wed Mar 4th, 2009 08:56 am by goldenweb

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 Posted: Wed Mar 4th, 2009 05:32 pm
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gregory
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Pen - that sounds BRILLIANT. There are loads of sites like that - you're right. But the print only one thing - I assume we can all be trusted.... :D

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 Posted: Thu Mar 5th, 2009 08:36 am
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goldenweb
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gregory wrote: ...I assume we can all be trusted.... :D



I have a sort of cellular feeling that if one is involved with tarot and its powerful images/archetypes for any length of time that a belief in karma slips up on one almost unawares. The Wheel of Fortune, Justice, the Hanged Man, Death, Devil, the Tower & Judgement (and the others) are always there, just below the surface even when one is not actually looking at or thinking about them. Mind you, they don't seem to affect those sellers on ebay who ask exorbitant prices for tarot decks, both OOP and fairly easily obtainable, but maybe they just deal in rather than study/appreciate tarot art and history. I'm pretty sure none of us is like that...

Pen (typing with crossed fingers)

Edited to add: And of course, once we'd all ordered our sets the password could be changed or the account/images deleted to avoid temptation...:D                     

Last edited on Thu Mar 5th, 2009 08:39 am by goldenweb

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 Posted: Thu Mar 5th, 2009 09:00 am
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goldenweb
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skad1 wrote: gregory wrote: skad/world - did no-one notice blue bubble's post above ????? creator of the Hezicos tarot ?


All the info I know is here on this thread, I know nothing more.   When I started this thread, I did not believe everything would go this well.  That all the majors would be gone so soon, and the minors well on their way.


Perhaps bluebubble could create the title card? The Hezicos Tarot is awesome...

Pen

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 Posted: Fri Mar 6th, 2009 03:47 pm
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skad1
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Okay, here's an idea, do we want to add the aces? Or trumps?

The only thing I have against the print-to-order places is that you get a photograph.  A nice shiny photograph.  It's not very slippery to read with, and you get fingerprints on them, etc.

Unfortunately, I am pretty cynical in my old age, :cc  I think if people CAN do something, someone probably will.  Unless we can tightly control print runs, someone will run off a batch for future sales.

Last edited on Fri Mar 6th, 2009 03:50 pm by skad1

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 Posted: Fri Mar 6th, 2009 04:27 pm
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gregory
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But but what about my threes :(

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 Posted: Fri Mar 6th, 2009 04:44 pm
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skad1
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gregory wrote: But but what about my threes :(


?

They are assigned to you, did you want us to print them?  :kt

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 Posted: Fri Mar 6th, 2009 05:32 pm
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nicole
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I hate the thought of cutting them cause I am a moron.
I do like the idea of lamination as they are protected.

Please tell me what this truly means.. I must be reading this wrong..

How can they be only about $12. a deck? What am I missing here?

How much for option 7:
3 x 4.5 final card size (2008 deck size) that is printed cut and laminated?

I will of course pitch in for the upfront money but again...I may be reading this wrong. I truly cannot afford $300. a deck ?

Nicky

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 Posted: Fri Mar 6th, 2009 06:04 pm
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Jackdaw
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This is all getting to be a rather big headache.  Maybe democracy really doesn't work ...

I think I'll sit this one out. 

Sorry to do so late in the game, but it DOES clear up a major and several pips for anyone who's late to the party. 

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 Posted: Fri Mar 6th, 2009 06:16 pm
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goldenweb
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skad1 wrote: The only thing I have against the print-to-order places is that you get a photograph.  A nice shiny photograph.  It's not very slippery to read with, and you get fingerprints on them, etc.





When you order postcards (rather than prints) from Photobox you get a lovely postcard laminated on one side - there must be US companies who do proper postcards too. They're not at all like photographs - the card is thicker and as they're laminated they don't show fingerprints.  

Pen  


Edited to add: Re. someone running off a batch, that's a risk that could be avoided by one person ordering the lot then sending them out - it would add to the cost though. 

And extras are a good idea I think... 

Last edited on Fri Mar 6th, 2009 06:22 pm by goldenweb

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 Posted: Fri Mar 6th, 2009 06:47 pm
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skad1
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nicole wrote: I hate the thought of cutting them cause I am a moron.
I do like the idea of lamination as they are protected.

Please tell me what this truly means.. I must be reading this wrong..

How can they be only about $12. a deck? What am I missing here?

How much for option 7:
3 x 4.5 final card size (2008 deck size) that is printed cut and laminated?

I will of course pitch in for the upfront money but again...I may be reading this wrong. I truly cannot afford $300. a deck ?

Nicky


The lamination would be done by me, and that would mess up the registration so the printer would not (and will not) be able to cut them.  And although I may be willing to cut acouple, I am not willing to cut 125+ sheets for everyone.  Especially if I goofed I would be liable.  So no option 7.  Unless someone else wants to volunteer to cut out 575 cards. 

The $12 dollars a deck is because no one is making a profit.  The $260 upfront is the cost of the printer and laminate sheets.  They want their money "upfront" and will not wait for payment.  I can not afford to pay everything upfront and get my money back from everyone as they get their decks.  But, let's worry about this later.

And you are not a moron.  By definition, no one on this forum is a moron.  Not alllowed.   :D


How about this,
A decision has been made.  Final card size will be 3 x 4.5.  You can make them any size you want as long as they shrink to that size, so the design ratio is 1:1.5, for every inch in the horizontal, go vertical 1.5.  We will worry about printing when designs are closer to completion.  That will be acouple months from now, and things may change by then.  We may all become so wealthy we want to print the full 78.  Or we all be so poor that we can't afford internet service to post cards!  :? 

So, democracy has ended, decision has been made.
Any coups require new thread :gi .

Jacdaw, is this ok, will you stay in?  I hate to lose anyone so soon,. :n

Last edited on Fri Mar 6th, 2009 06:49 pm by skad1

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 Posted: Fri Mar 6th, 2009 07:39 pm
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Marcia959
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Do we send our cards to you via email?  Thanks!!

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 Posted: Fri Mar 6th, 2009 09:46 pm
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skad1
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We'll set another thread up, and you'll post them on the thread (for comments, suggestions, and congratulations).  Then whomever does the final layout will request final scans, usually at as high a resolution as you can get.  The initial ones posted tot he thread need to be lower resolution to get them to load on thread.

Look at the thread for the last deck we did for how we did it.  Not that we have to do it that way again, but it seemed to work.  Tarot Collectors Forum Collaborative Decks > Are we too far away from...

Last edited on Fri Mar 6th, 2009 09:46 pm by skad1

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 Posted: Fri Mar 6th, 2009 10:36 pm
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nicole
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skad1 wrote:  How about this,
A decision has been made.  Final card size will be 3 x 4.5.  You can make them any size you want as long as they shrink to that size, so the design ratio is 1:1.5, for every inch in the horizontal, go vertical 1.5.  We will worry about printing when designs are closer to completion.  That will be acouple months from now, and things may change by then.  We may all become so wealthy we want to print the full 78.  Or we all be so poor that we can't afford internet service to post cards!  :? 

So, democracy has ended, decision has been made.
Any coups require new thread :gi .

Jacdaw, is this ok, will you stay in?  I hate to lose anyone so soon,. :n



Thanks for re-herding us cats Skad :)

I am all about someone else doing the decision making !

Now I need only worry about how to do my cards... an artist like moi cannot be bothered with details LOLOL

Nicky

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 Posted: Sun Mar 8th, 2009 11:32 am
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Jackdaw
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Okay, this sounds good.  I like decisions when it's not me has to make 'em :)  Thanks, skad. 

Just one last question: titles, numbers?  As before do we leave them off to be added in the final edit? 

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 Posted: Sun Mar 8th, 2009 11:59 am
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mythos
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That'll teach me to be Ms Invisible ... I've missed out.:f According to my calender it is January ... I figure that's wrong.  Maybe it is not so far away from the 2010 deck.:ro

mythos ... the missing one.

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 Posted: Sun Mar 8th, 2009 12:32 pm
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Jackdaw
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Awww Mythos :( There are still lots of minors ...

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 Posted: Wed Mar 11th, 2009 04:36 pm
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sacredashes
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mythos wrote: That'll teach me to be Ms Invisible ... I've missed out.:f According to my calender it is January ... I figure that's wrong.  Maybe it is not so far away from the 2010 deck.:ro

mythos ... the missing one.


:ttyou know, mythos... I remember I took The Devil card off you in another project... would you mind very much taking over this one from me, that is if you don't mind doing The Chariot card?

Its one of those cards that has lots of room for the artist's interpretation and I think your innate talent of weaving colors into symbolic shadow meanings would add a wonderful twist to this project :bl

What say you?

Ash

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 Posted: Sat Mar 14th, 2009 11:32 pm
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skad1
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Lots of questions on when due, and titles, etc...

Lets see, its March 14 now, How about June 1 for majors and July 1 for minors?  that's 2 months.  Or July 1 for all?

Everyone seemed to like the way OnePotato pulled the deck together by the common fonts for title and numbers in the border, so why don't we do that again?  

 

 

Last edited on Sat Mar 14th, 2009 11:36 pm by skad1

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 Posted: Sun Mar 15th, 2009 12:17 am
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Stefan
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Puh, i cannot follow all this posts every day.

Would be nice if all is clear and when the time to start illustrating the cards, then maybe somebody can note me by pm.

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 Posted: Sun Mar 15th, 2009 01:52 pm
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goldenweb
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Have we decided whether we're going to print extra cards yet? It would be wonderful for the deck if blue bubble (Hezicos Tarot!) and Mythos (Mythos Tarot!) were included...

:kt  

Pen 

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 Posted: Sun Mar 15th, 2009 06:29 pm
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truelighth
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I agree with Pen, it would be wonderful to have Mythos and BlueBubble included. And if possible others. A lot of the minors are taken already too, so why not try and aim for a full deck? I wouldn't mind doing one or two minors.. just haven't thought of which ones yet.

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 Posted: Mon Mar 16th, 2009 12:00 pm
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blue bubble
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Hi Skad1

Can I put my name forward please to paint the 10 of Swords. Not been a member for long with this lovely forum, but would like to get to know you all a bit better.

Look forward to hearing from you, enjoy your week!

Blue Bubble

http://www.hezicostarot.com

 

 

 

 

 

 

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 Posted: Mon Mar 16th, 2009 12:56 pm
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goldenweb
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Hooray!! :ce

 

Pen, not normally attracted to very active emoticons (but sometimes nothing less will do)! 

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 Posted: Mon Mar 16th, 2009 05:21 pm
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blue bubble
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Thanks Pen for your support, your a star!

Blue Bubble:gi

 

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 Posted: Tue Mar 17th, 2009 02:54 am
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gregory
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goldenweb wrote: Have we decided whether we're going to print extra cards yet? It would be wonderful for the deck if blue bubble (Hezicos Tarot!) and Mythos (Mythos Tarot!) were included...

:kt  

Pen 

What do you mean by EXTRA cards ? I thought we were doing a 78 card deck ???? and the last I read (this is  a crap connection, so I am not keeping up too well) we were hoping to print the majors and supply the minors digitally ??

But I am VERY glad blue bubble made it in :D

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 Posted: Tue Mar 17th, 2009 04:50 am
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nicole
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gregory wrote: goldenweb wrote: Have we decided whether we're going to print extra cards yet? It would be wonderful for the deck if blue bubble (Hezicos Tarot!) and Mythos (Mythos Tarot!) were included...

:kt  

Pen 

What do you mean by EXTRA cards ? I thought we were doing a 78 card deck ???? and the last I read (this is  a crap connection, so I am not keeping up too well) we were hoping to print the majors and supply the minors digitally ??

But I am VERY glad blue bubble made it in :D


I think the issue with 78 cards is in order to get Mythos and Blue Bubble in...


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 Posted: Tue Mar 17th, 2009 09:07 am
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goldenweb
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skad1 wrote: Okay, here's an idea, do we want to add the aces? Or trumps?



My understanding was that the majors would be printed and the minors supplied digitally, but skad1's post above seems to suggest that we could print extra cards so as to include Blue Bubble and Mythos (and maybe others who'd seen this thread too late to have their work in the printed part of the deck).

Mythos, where are you? You're needed on board...

Pen     

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 Posted: Wed Mar 18th, 2009 01:34 am
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jbthehp
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I'd like to do the 10 of pentacles if I can.

Bright Blessings and 10 of Pents to you all,

 Janet

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 Posted: Wed Mar 18th, 2009 06:54 am
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Arnell
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Wonderful to see you here Janet!!! Warmly, arnell

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 Posted: Wed Mar 18th, 2009 09:47 pm
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tantricknite
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How much extra would it cost to print a 78 card deck ?

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 Posted: Wed Mar 18th, 2009 09:53 pm
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skad1
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tantricknite wrote: How much extra would it cost to print a 78 card deck ?

I am in the preocess of figuring it out, it looks like the cost would double and they wouldn't be laminated.  I am willing to laminate for a 22 card deck, but the full 78 it would be around 600  8.5 x 11 sheets!  :sd

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 Posted: Wed Mar 18th, 2009 10:04 pm
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tantricknite
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The the cost would be divided equally amongst the contributors so it might be affordable depending how many people were involved and what their cost comfortability level was.

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 Posted: Wed Mar 18th, 2009 10:08 pm
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tantricknite
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I know my son Joe was quite impressed with the outcome of the 2008 deck and expressed an interest in this one....

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 Posted: Wed Mar 18th, 2009 10:39 pm
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skad1
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There are some people who are going thru a tight time right now, and for them cost would be an issue.  For me (or whoever handles the printing, the upfront costs are prohibitive.  People are used to paying for the deck when they get it, but the printer needs to be paid before the decks can go out.  . 


So far it looks like 22 card deck, laminated but uncut, would cost $16.00 each, the full 78 would be around $27.00, they would be cut, but not laminated.  It may not seem like much, but the up front cost goes from around $300.00 to $930.00.  All cost approximate, you know how that goes.   :ee  We wouldn't need to print 78 copies, just however many people are contributing, I have been using 35 decks for estimating, since so many are doing multiple minors.


So far I still like the idea of printing the majors and then providing everyone with a digital 78 deck that they can print themselves.

I still need to look into that option others mentioned about having a professional photo service print them for each individual as they request them.

Yeah-wasn't the 2008 deck great?   :ok  It's alot to live up to.


Last edited on Wed Mar 18th, 2009 10:44 pm by skad1

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 Posted: Thu Mar 19th, 2009 01:13 pm
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truelighth
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skad1 wrote: So far it looks like 22 card deck, laminated but uncut, would cost $16.00 each, the full 78 would be around $27.00, they would be cut, but not laminated.  It may not seem like much, but the up front cost goes from around $300.00 to $930.00. 


Maybe we should actually do a poll on how many people would be able to afford the $16.00 or the $27.00. Personally, I would opt for having the full 78 deck, even if it is not laminated. The difference is not that much, although I can see that for some it would be a problem. But at least we are not talking $80 to $100.

And in any case, I think we should say that people have to pay you upfront, before it really goes to the printer. It would be too much for you to cough up the whole amount in one go.

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 Posted: Thu Mar 19th, 2009 03:42 pm
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gregory
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The issue would be that the price would rocket when you take into account the number of people who would NOT want to pay. $27 is one thing. $54 of half weren't interested is a lot more - AND I imagine for fewer decks the upfront fee would be higher ?

And - HOW unlaminated ? Some unlaminated decks l I have are so weedy as to be unusable....

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 Posted: Thu Mar 19th, 2009 07:27 pm
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nicole
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truelighth wrote: Maybe we should actually do a poll on how many people would be able to afford the $16.00 or the $27.00. Personally, I would opt for having the full 78 deck, even if it is not laminated. The difference is not that much, although I can see that for some it would be a problem. But at least we are not talking $80 to $100.

And in any case, I think we should say that people have to pay you upfront, before it really goes to the printer. It would be too much for you to cough up the whole amount in one go.


I'm with you... the only way to even come close to last years version is to do 78.. last years was just so lovely.

I'm in for whatever you all decide but I would like the 78...particularly since there are people doing more than one which means we need not print 78 decks.

Nicky

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 Posted: Sat Mar 21st, 2009 01:49 am
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Arnell
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Dear Skad1 and everyone,

Sorry to be a bother but Blue Bubble and I would like to switch cards. She has graciously agreed to do the Fool card, and I'd like to take over her 10 of Swords, so when you get a chance, Skad1 please do the ol' switcharooo for us on the big chart. Very much looking forward to seeing what Blue Bubble's  does with the Fool and her fabulous deck getting published in the hopefully not too distant future (http://www.hezicostarot.com) ....will be very cool! Whatever the majority of us go with, regarding printing just the Majors with a CD of the full 78 images or printing the full set un-laminated is good with me and I can pay for mine upfront, no worries. Okay well I’m excited to check out everyone's cards in this deck. Thanks, have a great weekend! Warmly, Arnell

 

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 Posted: Sat Mar 21st, 2009 07:01 am
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jbthehp
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I'm all for the 78 card deck and am happy to pay. But I bow to whatever the group decides :-).

 A new deck! hooray!!      :cl

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 Posted: Sat Mar 21st, 2009 03:01 pm
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gregory
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Not that I want to (yet anyway) but I was just jotting down the dimensions - are we allowing landscape format cards ????

Just curious and a stirrer :gi

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 Posted: Sun Mar 22nd, 2009 04:51 am
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rylla
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I'd like to do the 7 of Swords...is that enough if I mention here?

rylla

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 Posted: Mon Mar 23rd, 2009 03:26 am
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tantricknite
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Are the pip cards going to be illustrated or unillustrated ? It seems to me that if the minors are a combination of both it might make the deck a litte kaotic...

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 Posted: Mon Mar 23rd, 2009 08:44 am
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goldenweb
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I've started mine and it's illustrated...

Pen

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 Posted: Mon Mar 23rd, 2009 09:43 am
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Mr. la-luna
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goldenweb schreef: I've started mine and it's illustrated...

Pen

Ooops I also started upon my 2of Cups and it's non illustrated :f:z:v:cc

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 Posted: Mon Mar 23rd, 2009 10:10 am
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goldenweb
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tantricknite wrote: Are the pip cards going to be illustrated or unillustrated ? It seems to me that if the minors are a combination of both it might make the deck a litte kaotic...



Never mind, we can call it the Kaotic Tarot...:cool:

Having said that mine is illustrated though, I've just realised that it's a court card, so it would be anyway. Silly me...

Pen:m 

Edited to add: And Mike, are you going to create a card? I can't see you on the list...

Last edited on Mon Mar 23rd, 2009 12:20 pm by goldenweb

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 Posted: Mon Mar 23rd, 2009 01:19 pm
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gregory
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My pips will be illustrated. And I have a few decks with a mixture so it doesn't feel like a huge issue. I'd say do thine own thing ! Collaborative does NOT mean everyone has to do EXACTLY the same thing.....

For instance - do we use RWS, Thoth or TdM "symbolism" ??? :kt (PLEASE don't answer that as my threes shall be what I want whether anyone else approves or not, SO THERE !)

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